Minnesota Focus Owners Club

harold wrote:

MNiceGuy wrote: ^^True

I love building PCs and with a grand I think I could do a lot! All you really need as a fairly fast dual-core and a halfway decent video card.

Yeah, and for a grand I can also have my PS3 and my 360 with a bunch of games. I also get to know that they'll have another 5 years or so in their product cycles without needing to upgrade them to play a game that's released for one of them.

Don't get me wrong, I like PC gaming. I dig WASD. But when my top-of-the-line video card from less than 2 years previous can barely chug along on the lowest quality settings in a new game it means I have to divert my money from something else to fix it. That means I can't buy toys for my cars. It made more sense to me to pay $200 for a 360 than to pay $500 for a new video card, motherboard, CPU and RAM. The desktop is basically an appliance now and I'm fine with that.

You do have a point there. The last I did any reading about it, word around town was that the current-gen consoles are going to have a longer than normal life cycle considering the state of the economy and the overall cost of producing a new model. I believe Sony has even made a public statement saying they have no immediate plans to develop a replacement to the PS3. That's good for console goers because it's going to be a while before there's an urge or need to replace the current hardware.

I personally love the extra horsepower a PC has. Some games come pretty close but in others the PC has a clear advantage. There are a lot of people that couldn't care less about the added detail but some do and are completely willing to pay for it. It's like the handling on my car. Most everyone that has a Focus SE is content with it handling like a waterbed. I personally was willing to throw down some cash to make it better. Also, for real time strategy games like Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Warcraft, etc there is no substitute for a keyboard and mouse.

I love my PS3 but there's only one game that I had to have for it: Metal Gear Solid 4 (a masterpiece of a game BTW). Other than that it has become a Blu-Ray/DVD player and Media Center out in the living room. It probably spends 5% of its life gaming and that's being generous. My girlfriend's Wii is a different story. To anyone coming from keyboard/mouse I can't see how they can stand it. It's the same basic concept but on a much sloppier and frustrating scale.

I may be different though because I also call on my PC for photo and video work as well as media storage and streaming. With that said and since I prefer WSAD out of all the control schemes, it made sense for me to put in a beefy video card and use it for gaming as well.

MNiceGuy wrote: You do have a point there. The last I did any reading about it, word around town was that the current-gen consoles are going to have a longer than normal life cycle considering the state of the economy and the overall cost of producing a new model. I believe Sony has even made a public statement saying they have no immediate plans to develop a replacement to the PS3. That's good for console goers because it's going to be a while before there's an urge or need to replace the current hardware.

Sony has been saying 10 years for the PS3. That may well include overlap with the next console like what the PS2 has right now. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft tries the same thing. There's actually an article about it in the current Game Informer.

MNiceGuy wrote: It's like the handling on my car. Most everyone that has a Focus SE is content with it handling like a waterbed.

I like the simile here because I got the SVT suspension package for my ZX3, but I also bought a Porsche 924. :)

MNiceGuy wrote: I love my PS3 but there's only one game that I had to have for it: Metal Gear Solid 4 (a masterpiece of a game BTW). Other than that it has become a Blu-Ray/DVD player and Media Center out in the living room. It probably spends 5% of its life gaming and that's being generous. My girlfriend's Wii is a different story. To anyone coming from keyboard/mouse I can't see how they can stand it. It's the same basic concept but on a much sloppier and frustrating scale.

My gripe with the Wii is that I don't want any of the games that are out for it. I played it for a week at a friend's place and was done. The PS3 has gotten a little less play since I got the 360, but that's because I wanted to get some practice in with Left 4 Dead and Halo 3 so I didn't completely embarrass myself when playing with others. I still fire it up for Little Big Planet and I'm sure I'll be attached to it when GT5 comes out. I usually play one game to the exclusion of others when I get something new.

MNiceGuy wrote: I may be different though because I also call on my PC for photo and video work as well as media storage and streaming. With that said and since I prefer WSAD out of all the control schemes, it made sense for me to put in a beefy video card and use it for gaming as well.

If all my LAN gaming friends hadn't moved out of state (XFire hired 2 of them and 1 of them was married to a 3rd), I'm sure I'd have something newer than an Athlon64 and a GeForce 6800 right now.

My gripe with the Wii is that I don't want any of the games that are out for it. I played it for a week at a friend's place and was done. The PS3 has gotten a little less play since I got the 360, but that's because I wanted to get some practice in with Left 4 Dead and Halo 3 so I didn't completely embarrass myself when playing with others. I still fire it up for Little Big Planet and I'm sure I'll be attached to it when GT5 comes out. I usually play one game to the exclusion of others when I get something new.

One golden rule with the Wii. DO NOT under any circumstance buy a game that was developed my anyone other than Nintendo. Third party games are terrible while the in-house ones like Mario and Zelda are pretty good when you overcome the control deficiency.

If all my LAN gaming friends hadn't moved out of state (XFire hired 2 of them and 1 of them was married to a 3rd), I'm sure I'd have something newer than an Athlon64 and a GeForce 6800 right now.

Cheap as it gets gaming upgrade @Micro Center
Intel E5200: $69.99
Asus P5KPL-CM: $45.96 open box
2GB Corsair XMS2: $19.99 after rebate
Galaxy GTX250: $99.99 after rebate

Just in case you get the itch

For a long time I played a ton of Call of Duty online and to play you need razor sharp graphics or you get owned.

I tried CoD4 at CH435's in split screen and I had a real hard time with the graphics (especially the night maps) and besides I have no practice with shooters using a controller so I could barely move or aim.

I'm a die hard keyboard-mouse guy when it comes to shooters, I can drive allright with the controller but thats about it.

My home PC is a Gateway Athlon triple core, 6 gigs ram, Geforce 9550? (I think) and it's fantastic, I know theres better out there but for what I do it's plenty.

FORDSVTPARTS wrote:For a long time I played a ton of Call of Duty online and to play you need razor sharp graphics or you get owned.

I tried CoD4 at CH435's in split screen and I had a real hard time with the graphics (especially the night maps) and besides I have no practice with shooters using a controller so I could barely move or aim.

I'm a die hard keyboard-mouse guy when it comes to shooters, I can drive allright with the controller but thats about it.

Exactly. With a controller it's like you have to visualize where you want the crosshair to go and then move it over there. With a mouse it's already over there.

hermitmaster wrote:More RAM and/or a video card upgrade will certainly help.

Allright, heres my computer specs:
Windows Vista Home Premium Service Pack 1
4.0 GB Ram
200+ GB free hard drive space
Nividia GeForce 8200
AMD Phenom 8400 Triple Core Processor 2.10ghz
64-bit operating system

Game requirements:
Windows Vista Service Pack 1
1.5GB Memory
16GB Free Hard Drive Space
256MB Nividia 7900
Intel Core 2 duo 1.8ghz processor or AMD Athlon X2 64 2.4ghz


What do I need to make this game run smoothly??? Tell me if you need more info. Thanks for the help.
GTA4 is SUCH a GOOD stress reliever for me, I wish I could get it to work!

What screen resolution are you playing at?

When helping you with a video card there are a couple things I need to know.

1. Do you care if you have to play at lower resolutions or detail settings? The more you're willing to live without the lesser the requirements up to the point the game becomes unplayable at any setting. Because of the game you chose having poor optimization on PC, it's safe to say the unplayable bar is probably relatively high. Also don't expect to cut corners and have it look as nice as it does on either console. Again really bad optimization on the part of the developers as it came to PC as a sort of second thought.

2. What power supply do you have? What are it's watt and amp ratings (on the +12V)? These can be found on a spec label on one side of the supply itself.

I'll assume for now you want moderately high settings and you have an adequate power supply:

Overclock that Phenom if you have the capability to do so since GTAIV is heavily dependent on the CPU for its abundant physics calculations. You have three cores so that's a bit to your advantage. That being said though that 8200 is whats holding you back the most. Although the 8200 is quite decent for onboard video, it's just not going to cut it when stacked against a modern game. It's actually made for HD media playback. Don't quote me on this but Nvidia has horrible naming conventions and I believe your 8200 is quite below 7900 standards but is newer hence the "8".

For GTA I suggest nothing less than a ATI HD4850 or Nvidia GTS250 which will run you approximately $130. You could step down to a HD4830 or 9800GT but you wouldn't be saving much money. Below that is the likes of the 9600 series and that's where I found evidence that people hit a wall and became frustrated with poor performance.

Also, should you choose to play other games that aren't so piggish about your CPU, you'll find you can play quite a bit of what's out there with either of the first two cards I mentioned.

I don't have the game on PC but I've heard even the mightiest of setups can't run the game smooth because of poor optimizations and heavy CPU requirements although recent patches have made it slightly better. Even my GTX285, Core i7, DDR3 setup will supposedly run into issues as the settings get cranked.

I was a bit off on my system,

Phenom 8450 triple core
6 gigs ram
Geforce 9600 512 meg
Vista home premium sp1

Most PC racing games just annoy me, the best ever was Grand Prix Legends which I do have installed on this system and with all the updates installed it looks pretty good and has by far the best physics of any PC racing sim ever.

It's also got a basically vertical learning curve and requires endless practice to drive well and I have no time these days.

That's a very competent system Steve. Should you find things getting a little choppy for your tastes any time in the near future you can just swap in another video card and be done with it. One thing to remember when upgrading is that many times someone out there would love to have the part you're swapping out and you can almost always recover some of your money from it.

I agree there isn't a lot to pick from when it comes to good racing games. DIRT and GRID are both good but they are sort of a blend of arcade and sim. Either way they both look fantastic.

The Need for Speed series dried up after Underground 2. I owned Pro Street for only a few days before I traded it off on something. Absolutely terrible no matter which way you look at it.

I've heard that the GTR series is pretty good in terms of sim racers but I have yet to try either. There's also another one called Live for Speed I believe which is supposed to have supurb physics.

Console-side Forza was awesome and better than the Gran Turismos that came out around the same time. I haven't played the sequel on the 360 though.

And finally GT5: Prologue to me is a lot like how you describe Grand Prix Legends. The early levels aren't too bad but then things get real hard real quick. Certain races demand absolute perfection where one bump or just a little too early on the brakes and you might as well start over. I must have tried the Nissan GT-R challenge a few dozen times before I finally beat it with my heart racing in a cold sweat. The tuning system isn't like it was in the other games where you could make a 1000hp Skyline and just walk all over anything the AI could throw at you.

Never cared for GTR or GTL.

Heres some Grand Prix Legends videos,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvuJslTA ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NatjPr3 ... re=related

BEST ONE YET!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGQGA7-y ... re=related

HD version,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV0B1jGC ... re=related

I have an ATI HD2XXX series card I would part with pretty cheap ($20-30) if I can find it. Let me know if your interested. I can't remember the model number or specs on it, but I know it has dual DVI outputs and I'm pretty sure it has 512mb of RAM. Otherwise here's a great deal on an ATI HD4850: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814121272

hermitmaster wrote:I have an ATI HD2XXX series card I would part with pretty cheap ($20-30) if I can find it. Let me know if your interested. I can't remember the model number or specs on it, but I know it has dual DVI outputs and I'm pretty sure it has 512mb of RAM. Otherwise here's a great deal on an ATI HD4850: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814121272

I might be interested in your card, if I can find out that I have space in my tower to install it into. This is the first time I have bought the smaller tower b/c at the time I thought the system had more than I would need for a long time. My desktop is the Acer Aspire series....would your card work with my desktop? Would the card you are offereing enhance my GTA4 gaming experience?

It will certainly help run the game if you are using on-board graphics. As far as fitment it really depends on the size of your tower. If you give me a model number I can tell you if it will fit.

MNiceGuy wrote:

FORDSVTPARTS wrote: I'm a die hard keyboard-mouse guy when it comes to shooters, I can drive allright with the controller but thats about it.

Exactly. With a controller it's like you have to visualize where you want the crosshair to go and then move it over there. With a mouse it's already over there.

I'm with you two. The only reason I've got FPSs on a console is so I could play with people I know who live in the same state. For years I swore I would never own an FPS I couldn't play with mouse and keyboard, but I just had to suck it up.

I've heard Forza 2 is pretty good. I was going to pick up a copy since it's only something like $17 used. I got pretty fed up with GT5:P since there's so little you can tune and, like was mentioned before, the difficulty is a bit ridiculous in the A Class.

harold wrote: Forza 2 is pretty good.

Yes it is. V6 swap into focus... hehe, fun...