Well, once I got my RPM range up to the stock rev line I was able to run the numbers below. We're running pig rich without throwing any timing at it. I am on the left and a supercharged Hyundai Tiburon is on the right.
BIR MAP Proving Grounds
Did any of you go to MAP's Proving Grounds at BIR? It was a fun event I missed all of the competitions I was going to participate in because I blew a coolant hose and had a boost leak. Thankfully they were kind enough to let me do some tuning runs down the strip while they were getting everyone matched up for the bracket racing. I drove the Christmas themed Miata (Green car with red hardtop). I was working my way up the RPM range trying to make sure that everything was running safely rich. We just converted the car to E85 on Thursday and have not had nearly any time to tune it.
Well, once I got my RPM range up to the stock rev line I was able to run the numbers below. We're running pig rich without throwing any timing at it. I am on the left and a supercharged Hyundai Tiburon is on the right.
Well, once I got my RPM range up to the stock rev line I was able to run the numbers below. We're running pig rich without throwing any timing at it. I am on the left and a supercharged Hyundai Tiburon is on the right.
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ZX2_racer
- Posts: 1472
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- Car: Pitch Black 2007 ZX3 S
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I was there. Kinda hard to miss me as I was all over the place. I ran the Auto-X track on Saturday and went Road Racing Sunday. That was a blast.
Eibach | Tokico | Ford Racing | Magnaflow | F2 USA | Steeda | Crane
I was hoping to do that too, but unfortunately my tune wasn't where it needed to be. Even more disappointing is that I had already paid for the Autocross but wasn't able to participate. Good thing the fees weren't to high. What were you driving? Focus?
Wow. S/C Tibby's are slow. REALLY slow. 
The Miata a 1.6 or 1.8?
High 14's just seems slow with boost to me. I figure if you boost something it better be in the 13's at least being a decent all motor car can do that. Boost should be faster. Never seems to work that way though unless the car was boosted from the factory.
The Miata a 1.6 or 1.8?
High 14's just seems slow with boost to me. I figure if you boost something it better be in the 13's at least being a decent all motor car can do that. Boost should be faster. Never seems to work that way though unless the car was boosted from the factory.
--John
The Miata is very slow right now but that is only because we have a very conservative tune in place so that we could work our way up the RPM range. We do this by tuning the lower RPM range while using a spark cut rev limiter. We slowly step our way up the RPM range making sure that everything is tuned rich so that you don't run into trouble with running to lean. Running lean is dangerous for the engine. We do it this way so that the boost doesn't runaway on us. It is much safer to do it this way. This is currently where the car sits.
Now we go back to the basic tune and start leaning it out. We will probably run it leaner in the lower RPM to increase the heat of the exhaust gases in order to help spool the turbo.
The other thing that we will need to do is work with the ignition timing because you can throw a large amount of timing at E85. I admittedly don't know much about ignition tuning with E85 but I have friends that have been working with it for a couple years. I will be relying on them to help me increase my knowledge in this area.
Now we go back to the basic tune and start leaning it out. We will probably run it leaner in the lower RPM to increase the heat of the exhaust gases in order to help spool the turbo.
The other thing that we will need to do is work with the ignition timing because you can throw a large amount of timing at E85. I admittedly don't know much about ignition tuning with E85 but I have friends that have been working with it for a couple years. I will be relying on them to help me increase my knowledge in this area.
It's a 1.8 with stock internals. I do have a spare engine and some forged H-beam rods for it when I do need to swap the engine.The Miata a 1.6 or 1.8?
High 14's just seems slow with boost to me. I figure if you boost something it better be in the 13's at least being a decent all motor car can do that. Boost should be faster. Never seems to work that way though unless the car was boosted from the factory.
The current engine is my base platform which I will be using to refine the tune and to experiment with. I will be dabbling in crankcase evacuation once the tune is sorted out. I have some elements ready to go but I need to have the engine in good tuned order before I proceed.
When talking about non-factory turbocharged cars not working out to good you may want to consider all of the turbo civics driving around.
Well the 2 turbo'd Hondas I know personally don't impress me. Both run a mid/high 14. I know one other than runs damn near a 10 but it's a turbo'd K series and has more into it than the average enthusiast spends on a turbo kit. B's and D's are just too much of a slouch IMO.
Far as the EVAC goes I can probably offer some help that way. Been running vacuum in the pan of my Focus for a few years now. Tried a few methods that work and a few that don't. The GM air pump method is iffy at best, if that's what you where thinking. Best option is a belt driven pump, damn things are spendy though. I want to try a Ford air pump but no one seems to have one they want to get rid of cheap.
Right now I make a max of 15" of vacuum. Seems that from about 8" to 10" is where the car does the best though. Anything over that I haven't seen any gains.
For tuning the ignition you really have to have the car on a dyno. Trying to find MBT road tuning is really damn tough and can be dangerous. With a dyno you can set a RPM and load so you get it right the first time out. Far as I hear you're supposed to shoot low to accommodate any variance in the E-85 mixture. I'd done some decent (?) research on E-85 linky that should help some. I'm also working on a spreadsheet to figure the ignition timing (assumed MBT) from chamber volume, flame front speed and AFR; gonna be a while before I'm done though and will only be rough estimate.
Ian and Scuba Steve are probably the best local guys to help ya out.
Far as the EVAC goes I can probably offer some help that way. Been running vacuum in the pan of my Focus for a few years now. Tried a few methods that work and a few that don't. The GM air pump method is iffy at best, if that's what you where thinking. Best option is a belt driven pump, damn things are spendy though. I want to try a Ford air pump but no one seems to have one they want to get rid of cheap.
Right now I make a max of 15" of vacuum. Seems that from about 8" to 10" is where the car does the best though. Anything over that I haven't seen any gains.
For tuning the ignition you really have to have the car on a dyno. Trying to find MBT road tuning is really damn tough and can be dangerous. With a dyno you can set a RPM and load so you get it right the first time out. Far as I hear you're supposed to shoot low to accommodate any variance in the E-85 mixture. I'd done some decent (?) research on E-85 linky that should help some. I'm also working on a spreadsheet to figure the ignition timing (assumed MBT) from chamber volume, flame front speed and AFR; gonna be a while before I'm done though and will only be rough estimate.
Ian and Scuba Steve are probably the best local guys to help ya out.
--John
Nice to hear on the Crank Evac. I will be using the exhaust tapping method for evacuating the crankcase.
Have you had any experience with anyone in the Twin Cities who runs a loaded dyno? My friends scheduled time at a place and the operator working with them only knew how to do sweeps and did not know how to load the dyno so they could tune specific cells of the fuel and spark maps.
Have you had any experience with anyone in the Twin Cities who runs a loaded dyno? My friends scheduled time at a place and the operator working with them only knew how to do sweeps and did not know how to load the dyno so they could tune specific cells of the fuel and spark maps.
Personally, no. I would think Jordan over at MAP would know how. Just reading up on the dyno they have, if they have the "eddy current brake option" I believe that's what they would use to load the dyno. I'm not exactly sure though.
Worth calling and asking about. Maybe he'd be nice and do reduced fees if he has some rights to the newly created maps. Could sell them to recoup losses.
Thought I heard someone talking that he's done Neptune before also, assuming that's what you're on.
Worth calling and asking about. Maybe he'd be nice and do reduced fees if he has some rights to the newly created maps. Could sell them to recoup losses.
Thought I heard someone talking that he's done Neptune before also, assuming that's what you're on.
--John
Nope I'm running Megasquirt. I have been there to dyno cars with friends but have never heard that they can load the dyno. I'd really prefer to do my own tuning though. Everything I do on the car is approached as a learning experiment. I am after the knowledge, understanding and experience, not just the speed. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Jordan is a fine tuner but I am really looking to improve my own skills.
I may give a call over there to ask about being able to load the dyno. I'm pretty sure they don't since that was the reason my friends looked elsewhere.
I may give a call over there to ask about being able to load the dyno. I'm pretty sure they don't since that was the reason my friends looked elsewhere.
I could have brought mine, but it would have gotten laughed at. but from what i recall you did pretty damn good on the 2.5 mile track..ZX2_racer wrote:Yea, I had my Focus there.
The ONLY Focus there competing in any event. LOL.
2008 Ford Fusion SE V6, Silver. When in doubt let some smoke out...